25 responses so far ↓

• 1 robertlowryjr

  cbdoobie

  that is ONE study. The Osteoarthritis of the knee study by the National Institutes of Health show a VERY large differenc between “sham” and “real”

  The “sham” points used are actually points used in Japanese Acupuncture…so they are NOT sham. The only thing proved by the study you cite is that certain Chinese acupuncture points work the same as certain Japanese Acu points which both work better than MD treatments.

  LBP has many causes, acupuncturists don’t treat them all 1 way

• 2 robertlowryjr

  Andrewf128

  You are dead wrong. Look up the Studyt I quoted on Osteoarthritis of the knee done by the NIH. Its a very large study over 26 weeks, randomized placebo controlled, etc. 40% decrease in pain, 40% increase in function.

  There is a reason why the very conservative and cautious Mayo Clinic has acupuncture.

  Sorry to rain on your hate parade

• 3 robertlowryjr

  metsesel

  Acu is a therapy NOT a surgery…in other words you usually go in for a series of treatments not one, just like Physical Therapy. Go to a Community Acupuncturist….$15 to $35…whatever you want to pay.

  Of course some things for some people it doesn’t work, this is true for all modes of healing and healthcare. I know many people on meds that are on them for life. Wheres the cure there? I know many that have had surgeries which only helped a little bit, Acu has this too

• 4 robertlowryjr

  andrewf128

  No, the largest randomized placebo controled study ever done on Acupuncture was done by the National Institutes of Health and it proved that 26 weeks of Acu for OsteoArthritis of the knee, will reduce pain 40% and increase function 40%. This was a HUGE study with all the bells and whistles of a gold standard clinical trial.

  These are totally replicable, as are many others. I work in an Integrated Clinic with Acu and MDs and see acu help where MDs can’t, EVERY TIME I’M THERE

• 5 robertlowryjr

  Pastor Jennifer
  Actually Qi is just the sum total of all the known and unknown western medical parts and processes….you detect it by seeing how all the parts and processes are working together. You see Western Medicine is based on Greek reductionism…if you break something down into its smallest parts you understand the whole, whereas Traditional Chinese Medicine is based on the idea that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

  They fill each others holes, very complimentary

• 6 robertlowryjr

  Pastor Jennifer

  The National Institute of Health, World Health Organization, UCLA and Stanford Med Schools, Mayo Clinic, MOST major City Hospitals, some insurance companies, thousnads of MDs, and many more mainstream American Medical professionals either use, provide, teach, practice, endorse or vouch for the efficacy of Acupuncture and have randomized, placebo controlled, blinded studies to back it up.

• 7 PastorJennifer

  But you made a good point.

• 8 PastorJennifer

  I am sorry that all the reports I have read about animal acupuncture don’t cut it scientifically.

• 9 PastorJennifer

  Hey Tiger:
  I think the life force is an emergent property of organized matter. Evolution… amino acids to proteins to DNA to cellular forms to more complex multicellular forms to … us… the miracle of thinking conscious beings! As to sub atomic theories, I await the results of the Hadron Collider to find out what mysteries will be revealed. Wouldn’t it be great if they found the Higg’s particle and string theory was confirmed! And then we will have a theory that explains everything!

• 10 TigerGJG

  I mean, did people doubt the existence of air before modern technology could validate it’s existence? What about the ancients who thought the earth was flat? In the end, one day machines will be able to measure life force, and then there will be a shift. And as far as the so-called “placebo” effects of acupuncture – there are countless studies validating the effects of acupuncture on animals, and I’m not sure how a horse needs to believe in it in order to be helped. Good talking to you!

• 11 TigerGJG

  Thanks Jennifer. I appreciate your response and although we may disagree, I respect your position on this. I would invite you to just think about the possibility that life arises from a very basic life force which may not be detectable at the quantum level. Even on an atomic level, what animates atoms? Even magnetic theories, etc – are animated by a primal energetic force. It’s really not that “mystical”, it’s just that scientists haven’t figured out a way to quantify it yet.

• 12 PastorJennifer

  Tiger.. sorry youtube only allows us to communicate in short sound bites! I would like to talk to you further and elaborate the discussion. The issues boil down to matters of faith vs scientific reason in the end of course.
  Qi and meridians in the body have never been detected. But I believe that the placebo effect could be a beneficial consequence to the consumer of acupuncture. Good luck to you and peace!

• 13 PastorJennifer

  Dear TigerGJG:
  I appreciate your measured response and I respect you for that! Thank you.
  Unfortunately I cannot agree with you that the age of a belief system such as that held by the foundational philosophy of Qi lends it greater credibilty than one based in the scientific tradition. Science has advanced medical practice profoundly. And it can cure cancer, and it can delay the advance of AIDS and hopefully one day eradicate it.

• 14 TigerGJG

  I just hate to witness people who doubt the efficacy simply because it does not fit into the modern scientific model. Acupuncture is a complete medical system that was developed almost 5,000 years ago. Modern medicine is only 150 years old, and all of a sudden these doctors with “God-complexes” come along and claim that theirs is the only medicine that works. If there is a disease, docs seek to remove the organ, etc. Acupuncture seeks to restore the body itself. How can you beat that?

• 15 TigerGJG

  PastorJennifer – I apologize for the childish comments and for calling you a moron and a hag. I was merely trying to vent my frustration and I realize I did it in an inappropriate way. I have had incredible experiences with acupuncture and have witnessed it literally regulate and re-balance complete bodily systems, among other things. It is cost effective, painless, and extremely beneficial. Can it cure cancer or AIDS? Of course not. But neither can modern medicine.

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• 17 PastorJennifer

  Dear TigerGJG:
  3. Reverting to ad hominem attacks such as calling me a hag (please don’t be so childish!) weakens not strengthens your position.
  4. I did not wish cancer upon anyone. I merely used it as rhetorical point to demonstrate the inefficacy of acupuncture in the treatment of bodily disease.
  5. Perhaps you should go for a treatment with your local TCM doc to get something to calm you down!

• 18 PastorJennifer

  TigerGJG
  Thank you for your respectful comments. Here is a small reciprocal lesson in internet etiquette if you wish to enter into online debate with people.
  1. I am not a moron despite your professed opinion which is entirely lacking in evidence. It is an unnecessary and irrelevant comment that reflects only poorly upon you not me.
  2. Your opinions about acupuncture refelect your personal worldview and not the facts concerning the historical uses of acupuncture.

• 19 TigerGJG

  And by the way PastorJennifer, even alluding to the fact that someone else will get cancer is completely f*cked up and such a stupid thing to say. Perhaps you are the one who should reap the condemnation that you wish on others. And maybe then sticking needles in yourself will cure you.

• 20 TigerGJG

  PASTORJENNIFER:
  You are an ignorant moron and you honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine is about PREVENTION, not curing disease. It is a complete, life-style based approach which seeks to prevent illness rather than cure it. The quote from the classics is “Superior doctors prevent the disease, Mediocre doctors treat the disease before evident, Inferior doctors treat the full-blown disease.” Western docs are inferior, and so are you, you hag.

• 21 PastorJennifer

  Polychronio:
  Why is that the majority of Chinese people prefer Western medicine to TCM now that the Chinese health system been improved? The majority are voting with their feet in favor of real science and not QIQong voodoo medicine. It seems (hahaha) they are not as clueless as you and your assessment of Western medical science.
  If you are ever unfortunate enough to develop cancer I hope you don’t think sticking yourself with needles is going to cure you.

• 22 newmanwong

  what ever, yeastady I got heavy headache, and I am too lazy to see doctor, then I find a link about how to massage the specific points(“xue wei”) on the face(2 points beside the nose, 2 points below the eyes, one points on the highest point of the head, and one points behind the heads), massage each point for 1 mins(I did’t do 1mins may be 20 seconds each), about 5 mins my headach gong, I was so suprise, that’s why I try to learn more about chinese “xue wei”,it’s really work, at least for me.

• 23 polychronio

  western people are really clueless hahaha. why does it have to be prove to western people. acupunture(?) cures much more disease and pains than western medical.

• 24 metsesell

  Yes, I agree with you. And I hope one day there will be trials that will really show (so that everyone agrees upon)if it is placebo or a real thing and how it really works. I put my bet on the real thing just because I have personally seen some very chronic conditions relieved and not temporarily (as placebo works) but as long lasting effects.

• 25 impeckerbull

  The problem is trying to validate acupuncture using a different paradigm ie western science to qualify it and quantify it. There are many approaches to acupuncture due to cultural revolution, area (japan, korea, china), family lineage. This is hard to except for western medical community as it has a standardized approach to the same problem. It does’nt account for variances in different paradigms of acupuncture, nor quality of understanding and application of those paradigms i.e gp’s with a few